Feeler gauges for valve adjustment?

**Honclfibr** · 02-26-04, 03:08 PM

Any recommendations for a good set? Will a set from any auto parts store work well, or should I get something better/more accurate/easier to use?

I'd like to check the valve clearances on my bike this weekend, but I want to do it right, so if it means waiting a weekend for the right tool to come in, so be it.

**Honclfibr** · 02-27-04, 03:22 PM

Thanks, I see what you mean about narrow spacing, I took a loook at the pictures in the service manual and it looks like an awful small gap on the zx6r too, I'll have to see what I can find for tapered gauges.

Seems I need to pull the cams to adjust the shims seeing as they're sitting under the buckets, is that true of most modern sportbikes or is mine just special?

Also seems like when I pull the bucket those shims could easily stick to the bottom of the bucket them pop off into engine cavities unknown

Mebbe I'll get lucky and they'll all be in spec...

**stoinkythepig** · 03-01-04, 11:19 AM

Sadly, pulling the cams is commonplace for valve lash adjusts these days.

Some tips in random order:

Make a table to record the mileage, all the beginning clearances, the present shims, the desired/new shims, and the final clearances. Keep it when you are done to compare with future adjustments. It'll help you monitor valve wear and allow you to accurately predict when the third adjustment will be due.

Mark the cam gears, crank gear and chain so that you can put it back together without going through the painful factory method of cam chain/gear alignment.

Zip tie the chain to the frame before you pull the cams to keep tension on it and to prevent it from falling into the cam chain tunnel.

Use a small clean magnet ( prefer the telescopic types you can usually get at the cash register of any VIP/Pepboys/Autozone) to lift the followers out of the bores. Use the same magnet to remove the shim from the follower where it will likely stick due to suction from the oil within.

Set lash to max allowed.

Stuff clean rags into any holes that could swallow feeler gauges, shims, nuts, bolts etc.

Sych carbs and chage oil after the valve adjust.

Clean the top of the engine thoroughly before you start. Use compressed air to blow off any dirt on top of the valve cover.

**scootertrash** · 03-01-04, 12:33 PM

I ripped apart the ZX9R over the weekend and did mine. Thanks to Stoinky and Rye for the helpful tips. It wasn't all that hard...just a pain to remove half the friggin' bike just to check the valves.

I ended up using a $5 feeler gauge set and just put a bit of an angle on the ends of the feelers. It probably would have been a bit easier if I had a good set. (tapered and angled would have been better)

All 16 were just barely within spec or were just a bit tight. I figured I had it this far apart so I pulled both cams and will replace (and/or swap) all shims so they are closer to max lash. (less tight)

One more bit of advice...have a box of sandwich bags handy and a permenant magic marker so you can bag and label all the bolts, followers, shims, etc.

**Honclfibr** · 03-01-04, 12:41 PM

thanks dave, some good advice there. I especially like the part about marking the camshafts/chain, since I've read it's a bitch to line them up right after they're pulled out, never thought about marking them while they're in. And you're the second person who told me to shim the valves loose, tend to tighten up I guess?

I've got the tank, airbox, carbs, plug wires, and all the hoses pulled now, and the side valve cover is off the bike. I was hoping to be able to pull the valve cover without yanking the radiator but I'm not sure if I'll be able to get the rear 3 bolts off without it, shop manual says to pull the radiator, I guess it needs a flush anyway

I'm tempted to try and drop in the jet kit I bought to cure a midrange flatspot while I've got the carbs out, but the little voice in my head says don't do too many things at once, if something goes wrong you'll never track it down...Stupid voice, always making more work for me

**Honclfibr** · 03-01-04, 12:44 PM

Originally posted by scootertrash
One more bit of advice...have a box of sandwich bags handy and a permenant magic marker so you can bag and label all the bolts, followers, shims, etc.

Yeah I've got one of those little compartmented boxes to do the same thing, looks like lots of little easy to mix up tiny parts in there.

How many miles you got on your ZX gordon? I've got 8k on the 6R, probably a little bit early for a valve check but I dunno if it was ever done at 500 miles and I don't want to be stuck with the bike laid up halfway through the season...

**Honclfibr** · 03-01-04, 12:50 PM

Oh one more question Dave, I may have asked this before but is there local shop that'll swap shims?

**stoinkythepig** · 03-01-04, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by Honclfibr
Oh one more question Dave, I may have asked this before but is there local shop that'll swap shims?

I used Leighton's on 125 in Lee NH. They swapped them for me for free last year.

And you're the second person who told me to shim the valves loose, tend to tighten up I guess?

The do indeed tighten over time. There's almost no wear on the cam lobes, followers, shims and valve stems. They get tight because the valve seats erode and the valve heads "tulip" from getting slammed shut (engine RPM/120) times per second at high temperatures. Supposedly, the stems stretch a bit too.

I was hoping to be able to pull the valve cover without yanking the radiator but I'm not sure if I'll be able to get the rear 3 bolts off without it, shop manual says to pull the radiator, I guess it needs a flush anyway

Have to see it to know for sure. I can do the valves on my 9R with the rad in place. Sometimes you can get away with just removing the top rad mounting bolts and pushing it forward a few mm with the hoses still attached.

I'm tempted to try and drop in the jet kit I bought to cure a midrange flatspot while I've got the carbs out, but the little voice in my head says don't do too many things at once, if something goes wrong you'll never track it down...Stupid voice, always making more work for me

I dunno, voice sounds pretty smart to me. You can do a jet kit by just removing the tank, airbox and carbs later. One forgotten vacuum hose+jet kit=countless hours of frustration.

In theory that is a good idea. The only problem is that guys forgot to take the rag out and run the engine with the rag in there and end up blowing the engine.

Good point. One more tip: Account for all rags before starting engine.

Go to the store and buy a muffin tray. That way you can put all the bolts from the stuff you have to remove in the individual compartments and do it in order.

MMMMMmmm muffins...

**scootertrash** · 03-01-04, 03:07 PM

Originally posted by Honclfibr
Yeah I've got one of those little compartmented boxes to do the same thing, looks like lots of little easy to mix up tiny parts in there.

How many miles you got on your ZX gordon? I've got 8k on the 6R, probably a little bit early for a valve check but I dunno if it was ever done at 500 miles and I don't want to be stuck with the bike laid up halfway through the season...

I have almost 14k on it. It's the first time for the valve adjustment, and to tell you the truth the need to adjust is borderline, but I have it all apart so I am going to go ahead and do it. (and probably wait a couple of years to check again)

**stoinkythepig** · 03-02-04, 07:47 AM

Originally posted by scootertrash
I have almost 14k on it. It's the first time for the valve adjustment, and to tell you the truth the need to adjust is borderline, but I have it all apart so I am going to go ahead and do it. (and probably wait a couple of years to check again)

That's weird, my 2001 9R was in dire need of adjustment at 7500 miles (the first recommended adjust interval). I changed all my shims and if memory serves, only three valves were within spec. (and those were just barely in). I checked them again at 18,000 and they were all fine, hardly any movement. I'll look again at 30,000 miles.

While this was going on, I hear Kawasaki doubled the valve adjust interval to 15,000 miles on the 2003 9R. I'm guessing they set them a little looser in the factory now.

**green1181** · 03-04-04, 06:05 PM

Ok things have been going pretty smoothly getting it apart, however the bike has 15k and no adjustment yet. The smallest
gauge I got is .004" and will not fit under the cam and followers.
Is there any other way to measure this? Also to remove the camchain do you just remove the tenisoner on the back of the engine?

**Honclfibr** · 03-04-04, 06:54 PM

Thanks for all the tips, I pulled the valve cover tonight and checked the clearances. Seem a bit odd to me tho...

Exhaust for the 98 6R is supposed to be 0.22-0.31 mm

Left to right, they're .127, .102, .127, .152, < .102, < .102, and .102.

My feeler gauges go below .10 but they get so thin they buckle under the slightest resistance, so I don't trust the readings...

Intake is supposed to be 0.11 - 0.19 mm

Left to right they're .127, .127, .152, .127, .102, .102, .122, and <.102.

They all seem so far out of spec I'm beginning to question if I'm doing it right. I slide the feeler gauge in and feel it slide out under the cam and out the other side. If it slides in a bit but then binds, I consider that a no go...

**Honclfibr** · 03-04-04, 07:04 PM

Originally posted by green1181
Ok things have been going pretty smoothly getting it apart, however the bike has 15k and no adjustment yet. The smallest
gauge I got is .004" and will not fit under the cam and followers.
Is there any other way to measure this? Also to remove the camchain do you just remove the tenisoner on the back of the engine?

Hey this is *my* help thread, stay away!

j/k...

The gauges I picked up at autozone to do the job went down to .05 mm, which is the smallest size the 6R valve table specs shims for. At that thin, I'm finding they flex way too easily also. Set cost me $5. Don't bother with their "mini feeler gauges" or "valve tappet feeler gauges", neither go down thin enough to be useful here.

Sounds like you might not have the service for your bike? If not, I would think you'd want to pick one up or borrow one for this job. Mine had a lot of information specific to the 98 6R, including valve clearances and shim sizes and whatnot.

I haven't gotten that far on the bike yet, but for the 6R the manual says to turn the bike to 1-4 TDC, remove the CCT, then unbolt the camshaft holder in a crisscross pattern.

**green1181** · 03-04-04, 07:30 PM

yeah I guess I should pick up a manual, one question on measuring the clearences..should the cam lobe be in the up position? I am getting more clearence when the cam is at a right angle to the follower than when it is pointing straight up.

thanks

**Honclfibr** · 03-04-04, 07:37 PM

Originally posted by green1181
yeah I guess I should pick up a manual, one question on measuring the clearences..should the cam lobe be in the up position? I am getting more clearence when the cam is at a right angle to the follower than when it is pointing straight up.

thanks

Again, this is for the 98-99 ZX6R, but....

You want to turn the engine until the 1-4 mark lines up with the TDC mark. Then, either the cylinder 1 cam lobes will be pointing horizontally away from each other, or the cylinder 4 cam lobes will be pointing horizontally away from each other. If the cylinder 1 lobes are pointing away, you can check all of cylinder 1valves, cylinder 2's exhaust valves, and cylinder 3's intake valves. After you're done, rotate the engine 360 degrees and you can check the rest of the valves.

**Honclfibr** · 03-04-04, 07:42 PM

RE the shop manual not sure what bike you've got, but I may have accidentally downloaded a service manual for the 00-02 ZX6R in PDF form while pursuing other, legal, software. I never found it a replacement for a paper shop manual, but if you'd like to take a peek I might be able to show you where you might also accidentally come upon it

**green1181** · 03-04-04, 08:43 PM

yeah I would really appreicate if you could accidently show me that, mine is a '01
thanks

**Stoneman** · 03-04-04, 10:17 PM

If any of ya have a disc with the manual as a .pdf file, I can print it out in extremely high quality and bind it for ya for a nominal fee. Ask Ed (Pinhead) how his Duc manual came out...

**Stoneman** · 03-04-04, 10:18 PM

Hey Darrel! I hope to christ you're gonna replace that leaky gasket too! (...funny to hear a Jewish guy say that, huh?)

**Honclfibr** · 03-04-04, 11:17 PM

No service manuals here...

I totally forgot about the weeping gasket, thanks Jay...been wondering why all those harley folks were being so nice to me lately...

**PinHead** · 03-05-04, 06:00 AM

Originally posted by Stoneman
If any of ya have a disc with the manual as a .pdf file, I can print it out in extremely high quality and bind it for ya for a nominal fee. Ask Ed (Pinhead) how his Duc manual came out...

That manual you made for me from that disk is realy unbelievable. Sooooo nice!

**stoinkythepig** · 03-05-04, 08:13 AM

Originally posted by Honclfibr
Thanks for all the tips, I pulled the valve cover tonight and checked the clearances. Seem a bit odd to me tho...

Exhaust for the 98 6R is supposed to be 0.22-0.31 mm

Left to right, they're .127, .102, .127, .152, < .102, < .102, and .102.

My feeler gauges go below .10 but they get so thin they buckle under the slightest resistance, so I don't trust the readings...

Intake is supposed to be 0.11 - 0.19 mm

Left to right they're .127, .127, .152, .127, .102, .102, .122, and <.102.

They all seem so far out of spec I'm beginning to question if I'm doing it right. I slide the feeler gauge in and feel it slide out under the cam and out the other side. If it slides in a bit but then binds, I consider that a no go...

Sounds like you are doing it right and those numbers sound "normal" to me. You "need" to adjust all of your exhaust valves and 3 of your intake valves. That said, might as well adjust all of the intakes valves to the max specs while ya got the cams out.

**scootertrash** · 03-05-04, 08:50 AM

Maybe we can do a group buy on shims...

I need 12 smaller shims (2.90mm and 2.95mm) and my local Kawasaki shop (Laconia) doesn't have any. They could order them...but obviously they would not be willing to do any swapping, so I would have to pay full retail for them.

They are available from Ron Ayers for $7.50 each. That's $90 just for shims.

Anyone know where to get them any cheaper ???

**stoinkythepig** · 03-05-04, 10:06 AM

Parts Unlimited catalog has a big kit and sells them seperately for around $4.50 each if memory serves. Got to an independant shop and ask. My local guy (the one that quoted me this price last year) went out of business.

**stoinkythepig** · 03-05-04, 10:08 AM

Found this with google:

http://www.cyclewareables.com/pages/...valveshims.htm

Feeler gauges for valve adjustment?

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