06 GSX-R 1000 shifting issue - air temp related?

[korndogg]

Hey guys,

So today I was having some issues shifting 3>4 and 4>5 at high RPM (11k+). Typically when I am riding “spiritedly”, I upshift clutchlessly. It always shifts like butter this way, but I found a few times today that it wouldn’t shift for me. So I started doing some testing and found that even when using the clutch it wouldn’t shift until I reduced speed. 1>2 and 2>3 seemed fine. 3>4 gave me problems "sometimes" and 4>5 was pretty consistent. Didn't test 5>6..

Any chance this was temperature related? I was riding in high 40’s air temperature, and the temp gauge on the bike was showing low-mid 160’s. The first time that I noticed the issue I had been riding for an hour, so it’s not like it was “still warming up”... but with 40-something air temps I’m sure it wasn’t as warm as it would be in the summer. The problem seemed less apparent when the temp gauge was showing high 160’s, but hard to say.. I only got so many chances to test the issue in the first place considering the speeds I had to be going to do it. And I could only test it once with warmer engine temps because as soon as I tested it once, engine temps had already dropped.

Is it possible that say, a 30 degree difference in engine temperature could cause something like this? Seems unlikely to me, but I’ve never once had any shifting issues with the bike before so it seems strange. Any chance the oil would be just enough thicker to give me problems? If there’s no chance that this is temperature related, I should probably tear the bike apart and get this fixed this winter. What am I looking at here? I'm sure it's not clutch related as it was happening when shifting clutchlessly..

The bike has 17.5k on it and it’s running 10w-40. Maybe 10w-30 would be a better idea in reduced temps?

Thanks a lot guys, appreciate the help.

Tommy

[Ray-Ray]

Hmm...My .02 is oil related.

[korndogg]

Think the oil weight should just be lower for the cooler air temps? I was hoping that might be it but not sure. I've never had a single issue shifting before though.
I don't know anything about the internals of a bike tranny. Don't know if oil weight could do something like that.

[CBR929RE]

I'm by no means a mechanic but I doubt temp has anything to do with it. sounds like maybe a bent shift fork

[korndogg]

Would that really be RPM/speed-dependent though? It still shifts perfectly riding normally.. or even spiritedly as long as you're not way up in the RPMs.

[Ray-Ray]

when was last oil change??

[korndogg]

It's a bit over 2500 miles. Time to do it again. Could try 10w-30 if that's a good idea for the cooler temperatures. 'Course I probably won't do a ton more riding in the cold weather with the GSX-R since I've fitted the FZ1 for that purpose... but I'd like to know the cause of this issue now.

[Ray-Ray]

i would honestly look at the shift rod, then change oil to a temp worthy weight.

[korndogg]

Checked out the shift rod and everything looks good.
Thanks Ray. I'll check and see if the dealer recommends a lower-weight oil for the cold.

[Ray-Ray]

Call me after the oil change

[CBR929RE]

if the rod was bent you'd have trouble shifting to any gear. and as long as you have the proper amount of oil in there 10w-40 is just fine for any temp you will be riding in. if there's only a problem in certain gears that leads me to believe the problem is a part that's only related to those gears. which is why I suggested the shift fork.

[korndogg]

Any of the vendors on the forum rebuild trannys? I was hoping one of them might chime in.

[tsorfas]

interesting id like to see some other responses.. we have the same bike with same miles and i havent experienced anything like that yet..

[Ray-Ray]

thats my old bike lol

[LN600K5]

I could see a shift fork causing an issue like this....but would it really be so intermittent if that was the case?

[Kurlon]

Shift lever transfers it's force to the shift shaft via a rod and linkage system, yes? Clean the linkages/heim joints/pivot points, then clean them again. Clean them one more time, then one more time, lube and see if that changes things. It's amazing how much hell just a lil friction or stiction in that assembly can raise hell with shifting.

[korndogg]

Just a quick update.. I called the two local places to see what their thoughts would be. Roadside marine said do not run a thinner oil, but try a semi-synthetic (I'm not sure if I'm running semi-syn right now or not - I'll have to look at what they sell), and to lube everything that I can.
Land air said "Yup, sounds like you have a problem there" and said they would have to look at it.

Roadside marine said that the oil temp shouldn't matter in cold temperatures by the time the bike is warmed up.. although they had an interesting point that any lube on the shifting assemblies would be exposed to the cold and could be impacted. However I did check it out and everything was smooth.

So basically the same thing you guys were saying.. Change the oil and lube everything. I just wanted to see if they would have any additional thoughts.
I'll pick up some oil tonight hopefully and see where that gets me.
Will update as I find more..

Thanks,

Tommy

[Ray-Ray]

Shift forks and gears are my last thought.......Let me know if you need anything Tom.

[Ray-Ray]

Maybe it has something to do with that clutch mod you did.

[NobodySpecific]

The reason you can't use 10W30 Tommy is that every 10W30 that I've seen has had friction modifiers. If you think you're having shifting problems now, just try running that oil for a bit! I would agree that it likely means that the oil needs to be changed (at the least) before being able to diagnose further.

[korndogg]

Maybe it has something to do with that clutch mod you did.

I didn't do the full mod. I only installed the updated tension washer (and it made a huge difference!). Also I think it's not the clutch since I typically shift clutchlessly and was seeing the behavior without using the clutch.

I'll change the oil and report back. Thanks guys.

[DaveZX6r]

Honestly from what your describing if it ends up being anything requiring repairs I would lean towards synchros. Especially if you've been power shifting for a while its possible your synchros are wearing. But as said before check everything else beore you go splitting the cases. And try running some rotella non synthetic if your not using it already. I haven't found anything that shifts nicer for the price yet.

[CBR929RE]

Honestly from what your describing if it ends up being anything requiring repairs I would lean towards synchros. Especially if you've been power shifting for a while its possible your synchros are wearing. But as said before check everything else beore you go splitting the cases. And try running some rotella non synthetic if your not using it already. I haven't found anything that shifts nicer for the price yet.

or it could be a part the bike actually has. this isn't a car transmission, there aren't any synchros in there. most motorycles have constant mesh transmissions where the gears are always in contact with each other so they don't need synchros to prevent grinding because there is no gear movement.

[DaveZX6r]

Interesting, I stand corrected then. Just looked at the fiche and your absolutely right there are no synchros there. So I would agree with you guys then if there are no synchros that leaves the shifter mechanism as the most likely culprit. My apologies for the misdirection.

[Pigman]

What kind of boots did you have on....?