Mass Title Question

[eo1bart]

I'm looking to buy a 1960's Triumph Bonneville basket case. The motor and frame VIN do not match. The guy has a title with the motor VIN. How much of a hassle will this be for me at the registry when I go for a new title and registration?

[boosten lebaron]

It would be an absolute nightmare and most likely impossible to ever make legal by normal means. You would needto get creative and probably go the vt route.

[ilikenapalm]

Not sure about Mass, but CT doesn't require a title for motorcycles prior to the year 1981 or more than 25 years old I think... I would assume your bike would fall into the "exempt from needing a title" category.

[scubasteveRR]

i believe the title needs to match the frame Vin in Mass

[boosten lebaron]

mass always needs a title or a previous reg from out of state if that state does not issues title to said vehicle ie vt and Maine.

[eo1bart]

The owner says that the bike was registered at some point in Massachusetts. I think if I went in the registry with the title that he has, I probably wouldn't have a problem getting the new title. I think that the problem would be when I go for an inspection sticker and they check the engine vs. frame VIN. I know that they do this because I just got a sticker on my current bike.

The price is good on the bike, but I'm leaning towards passing on the deal right now.

[MUZ720]

I think that the problem would be when I go for an inspection sticker and they check the engine vs. frame VIN. I know that they do this because I just got a sticker on my current bike.

Unless that's anew part of getting a sticka.. Find another inspection station. I have never had or seen or had that done ever in, oh 40 years of bike ownership..

[boosten lebaron]

I would pass. even if you somehow find a station that doesn't check the frame vin god help you if your ever in an accident or try to sell it.

[whynot]

What year is it? Value varies according to year.

You can date the numbers with this: Vintage Bike Magazine >> Serial Numbers

I have titled a vintage bike by frame# in MA, with non-matching engine #

[eo1bart]

What year is it? Value varies according to year.

You can date the numbers with this: Vintage Bike Magazine >> Serial Numbers

I have titled a vintage bike by frame# in MA, with non-matching engine #

Both the engine and frame are 1968

[aldend123]

The owner says that the bike was registered at some point in Massachusetts. I think if I went in the registry with the title that he has, I probably wouldn't have a problem getting the new title. I think that the problem would be when I go for an inspection sticker and they check the engine vs. frame VIN. I know that they do this because I just got a sticker on my current bike.

The price is good on the bike, but I'm leaning towards passing on the deal right now.

Does he have a copy of the previous registration?

I'm not sure the engine's VIN or it's title matter here. You want to register the frame, and you're short a title. You'll need previous registration to do that without a title.

Not sure about Mass, but CT doesn't require a title for motorcycles prior to the year 1981 or more than 25 years old I think... I would assume your bike would fall into the "exempt from needing a title" category.

I don't believe there is such exemption in MA. If it gets a license plate for road use, it's gonna need to be titled in MA.

[whynot]

... and back to the basket case itself ...

What you describe has the least value in the bike world -- basket, non-matching numbers, no title.

How much time and money do you have?

I spent 5 years and at least $10K building a non-titled, non-matching "basket" into a great running unique bike. That's with many years experience on vintage British bikes. Hey, I've owned these things since before they were vintage, first one in 1962.

Here's a good place to ask: Triumph Bulletin Board - BritBike Forum

I just posted that $10K bike of mine for sale ... at $5500 ... after all, I had my "fun" putting it together.

FS: My Triumph 650 Bitsa Special - BritBike Forum

The best use for the bike (basket) you described: part it out. That way you will help out many other builders, and you will make some money. Then you can get a running, titled 650 for maybe $3500 and continue fixing it up from there.

My 2 cents worth!

[eo1bart]

Well it's a 1968 Bonneville chopper for $1,000. I would only offer $800.
Triumph Bonneville t120r project for Sale in Plymouth, MA - OfferUp

[whynot]

Well it's a 1968 Bonneville chopper for $1,000. I would only offer $800.
Triumph Bonneville t120r project for Sale in Plymouth, MA - OfferUp

OK, to be clear, I'm just passing on my experience, not trying to decide for you and not being sarcastic.

I'd say the seller is representing it appropriately:
"Used (normal wear). 68 Bonneville t120r 68 frame non matching numbers. Project bike you will need to go thru the whole bike. It is not a quick fix."

To me, it has four strikes against it: apart, needs everything, non-matching numbers, no title (for frame). But that's me.

Back to my question, how much time and money do you want to spend, and what do you find rewarding?

Here's a good read, with a range of views, about a chopper, what it's worth, what it's good for:
What is a reasonable price for a chopper? - BritBike Forum

If you decide to go ahead, Jockey Journal would be a good forum to join.
The Jockey Journal

These stores:
Lowbrow Customs - Custom Motorcycle Parts for Harley Davidson, Triumph and Yamaha. Bobber and Chopper Parts for Sportster, Bonneville and XS 650
Tfmw home to triumph custom parts also xs, sportster, Harley, bsa, cb

eBay for used parts.

Choppahead for a local shop:
https://choppahead.com/


So often in "rescuing" one of the old bikes, I ask myself, "Are we having fun yet?"

[Degsy]

I can only go from experience here. I was a certified motorcycle inspector for MA up until about 2012/2013 and I can tell you that looking at engine numbers was nothing I ever had to do and it was not mentioned at the classes I had to take. I have also never had anyone look at the engine number on any bike I have had inspected. I have also done many engine swaps for people and I have never had anyone come back to me to tell me they had inspection issues.

[Point37]

Does he have a copy of the previous registration?

I'm not sure the engine's VIN or it's title matter here. You want to register the frame, and you're short a title. You'll need previous registration to do that without a title.

^^^this...does the previous registration have the frame vin or the motor vin on it?
Apply for a registration and title for a vehicle purchased from an individual | Mass.gov

[eo1bart]

I can only go from experience here. I was a certified motorcycle inspector for MA up until about 2012/2013 and I can tell you that looking at engine numbers was nothing I ever had to do and it was not mentioned at the classes I had to take. I have also never had anyone look at the engine number on any bike I have had inspected. I have also done many engine swaps for people and I have never had anyone come back to me to tell me they had inspection issues.

Therein lies the problem. The seller has a title for the engine but not the frame. With the information I've gathered so far, including what Mr. "whynot" from Arlington wrote, I am going to pass on this bike. I know that I would never get my money back on the cost of the bike and rebuild, especially since it would end up as a custom bobber and not a stock '68 Bonneville. Instead I'll take the money and get a new rear rim and paint job for the '79 Bonneville.
Thanks everyone

[Degsy]

I didn't even know that you could get a title with an engine number on it.

also, Nobody checks VIN numbers when they do an inspection. It's a safety inspection, nothing more.

[whynot]

...

... Nobody checks VIN numbers when they do an inspection. It's a safety inspection, nothing more.

It happened to me this spring. It was the service manager's day off, and the mechanic checked the VIN. On that inspection form they print out and give you, VIN is the second item. Lesson learned, I won't go there on Tuesdays.

[eo1bart]

It happened to me this spring. It was the service manager's day off, and the mechanic checked the VIN. On that inspection form they print out and give you, VIN is the second item. Lesson learned, I won't go there on Tuesdays.

As you probably know, in the last couple of years the State of Mass. has really started to crack down on the inspections stations. I found this out when i went for a sticker on my pick up truck this year. The inspection stations are going by the book now, including the motorcycle inspectors. When I got a sticker on the bike this spring, they most definitely checked the frame VIN against the registration, and the guy even told me that the numbers must match or I will fail the inspection.

[zombie]

I bought it.
Got some really cool period chopper parts with it.
Got a perfect rolling chopper chassis to shove the motor in.
the frame it came with is pretty nice too

[Garandman]

On the topic of RMV rules: do cars now require year decals on both plates? Previously you only received one, for the back.

Registration expires in two years so I’m wondering if they changed the law for 2021, or she just gave me two decals by mistake.....

[whynot]

On the topic of RMV rules: do cars now require year decals on both plates? Previously you only received one, for the back.

Registration expires in two years so I’m wondering if they changed the law for 2021, or she just gave me two decals by mistake.....

I received just one "21" sticker for my April 1 renewal.