Dual vs. Single Electrode Spark Plugs

[Femmekat]

I was wondering, in general, what the good people of NESR think about the pros/cons of dual vs. single elctrode spark plugs.... I already got my replacements for the R6 and am not seeking advice for my particular application, but was curious generally speaking what people have learned about the science/benefits/differences between these two types of spark plugs. I've read a million and one theories about combustion, displacement, etc. between these two types but no resources seemed particularly reputable....

Discuss... "E" vs. "EK"

[Rambunctous]

I never could figure how they(multi tips) could work. It seems to me that the spark/electricity would take the path of least resistance. Giving you just one arc from the tip.

[13]

I never could figure how they(multi tips) could work. It seems to me that the spark/electricity would take the path of least resistance. Giving you just one arc from the tip.

Bingo. Snake oil. 2 electrodes can't outsmart electricity. I guess if a fuel/air mixture is more dense next to one electrode as opposed to the other, enough to cause a substantial difference in resistance, maybe there will be an advantage. But I still call BS.

[RandyO]

I never could figure how they(multi tips) could work. It seems to me that the spark/electricity would take the path of least resistance. Giving you just one arc from the tip.

I agree, the only advantage I can see is that they would last longer, as the "least resistant" tip errodes, the other tip would take over

I've tried many plugs, my butt dyno can't tell the difference

the only thing I do know, fresh plugs make your starter happy in cold weather

[Degsy]

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Dyno them and get your answer. I'm sure they don't waste their money on expensive spark plugs in ama racing. They probably buy the cheapies.

[richw]

However a Iridium Fine Wire electrode does cause the electric fields to be condensed around the thin point. The higher denser potential then can have the spark jump more reliably. The lowered spark requirement also helps reduce carbon tracking at the insulator.

Original efficiency tests allegedly showed almost a 2% advantage which was attributed to either miss firings or delayed firing in conventional designed plugs

Additionally these plugs have a greatly extended life with near 100,000 mile lives in cars.
My subaru got 110 and the kid who owns it now seems to be still going there is 80 k on them in my truck

Price is as low as $8 but usually about 12

[stoinkythepig]

My bike came from the factory with dual electrode plugs. I cannot imagine why Kawasaki would spend the dough if there was no good reason for them. I have no clue what the reason is though.

[SSearchVT]

There's a little advantage to having the center electrode exposed to the combustion chamber - extremely little in a street application.

[Cerberus]

Bingo. Snake oil. 2 electrodes can't outsmart electricity. I guess if a fuel/air mixture is more dense next to one electrode as opposed to the other, enough to cause a substantial difference in resistance, maybe there will be an advantage. But I still call BS.

wrong.
having 2 electrodes lengthens the usable life of the plug, because as one erodes (and it does happen) the gap grows, and the spark jumps to the other electrode.

of course in the case of the 4 electrode plug, all the electrodes apparently shroud the spark too much or something.. never heard a positive review of them.

personally i am a big fan or iridium s due to their tendency to not erode any where near as fast as other materials

[Currently]

Here is my experience with expensive iridium plugs.

Had an air cooled YZ250 ... so I go and buy one of these new fangled iridium plugs, supposed to be good stuff ... right?

Get stranded in the woods.

Come home and go buy two more ... cause the first one fouled.

Go for another ride ... same shit happens, iridium plugs don't like low speed or idling through tricky spots ... fouled again.

After my second 5 mile trek to go get either my truck or some tools and now thoroughly pissed off ... I go to Kmart. I buy a Champion copper electrode plug.

Wouldn't you know ... that plug lasted for a year and a half in that bike with no fricken starting or fouling issues. I paid a $1.98 for that plug.

That was the start of my education on marketing "propaganda and lies".

[richw]

Heat range ?

Though I have never had them in a 2 stroke

[Kenn157]

The Gladius has two iridium plugs per cylinder. But that's the way it came. Put over 7K on them w/o a hitch.

[Degsy]

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Here is my experience with expensive iridium plugs.

Had an air cooled YZ250 ... so I go and buy one of these new fangled iridium plugs, supposed to be good stuff ... right?

Get stranded in the woods.

Come home and go buy two more ... cause the first one fouled.

Go for another ride ... same shit happens, iridium plugs don't like low speed or idling through tricky spots ... fouled again.

After my second 5 mile trek to go get either my truck or some tools and now thoroughly pissed off ... I go to Kmart. I buy a Champion copper electrode plug.

Wouldn't you know ... that plug lasted for a year and a half in that bike with no fricken starting or fouling issues. I paid a $1.98 for that plug.

That was the start of my education on marketing "propaganda and lies".

I'd say you got an education in performance parts and what application not to use them in.

[gregp]

My experience has been very similar in two stroke applications. The fine wire electrodes foul amazingly quickly.
They may last longer in clean burning four stroke applications, compared to standard versions, but they do not like burning two stroke oils running in a street/trail environment.
As far as multi-electrode plugs go, I am not confident that they succeed in doing anything but emptying my wallet faster, so I do not buy them.
Dual plug heads, though, seem to be a better approach for large bore motors.
BTW - Champion quality seems to be very inferior to NGK's, just by casual observation. The ceramic insulators on the Champion plugs look like they are very far of center, and sometimes the even look oval shaped, compared to the NGK's.

[Cerberus]

Here is my experience with expensive iridium plugs.

Had an air cooled YZ250 ... so I go and buy one of these new fangled iridium plugs, supposed to be good stuff ... right?

Get stranded in the woods.

Come home and go buy two more ... cause the first one fouled.

Go for another ride ... same shit happens, iridium plugs don't like low speed or idling through tricky spots ... fouled again.

After my second 5 mile trek to go get either my truck or some tools and now thoroughly pissed off ... I go to Kmart. I buy a Champion copper electrode plug.

Wouldn't you know ... that plug lasted for a year and a half in that bike with no fricken starting or fouling issues. I paid a $1.98 for that plug.

That was the start of my education on marketing "propaganda and lies".

Conversely, when i installed them in my '02 Triumph Daytona, they worked as advertised, improving throttle response and idle quality.
i suspect yours is an application for which they are not best suited..

[Currently]

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I'd say you got an education in performance parts and what application not to use them in.

Well, when I went to the dealer and asked him for a spark plug for my bike, that is what he handed me after I told him year and make of my bike.

[Degsy]

Well, when I went to the dealer and asked him for a spark plug for my bike, that is what he handed me after I told him year and make of my bike.

Yeah, you got misled. He wanted to sell you the more expensive part. Damn dealers.

[Femmekat]

I agree, the only advantage I can see is that they would last longer, as the "least resistant" tip errodes, the other tip would take over

I've tried many plugs, my butt dyno can't tell the difference

the only thing I do know, fresh plugs make your starter happy in cold weather

This is my understanding of the dual electrode plugs as well....

Here is my experience with expensive iridium plugs.

iridium plugs don't like low speed or idling through tricky spots ... fouled again.

I looked into the iridiums for my bike which are "all the rage" but have been learning that first gen R6's are very finicky about being messed with...and came to the conclusion that iridiums for this particular bike would not be the best, and are too hot a plug, foul easier, don't like 30% or less throttle, etc. It seems that the conventional wisdom is to go to too cold a plug if anything, not too hot a plug....

The plugs I pulled out are NGK CR10EK's, and the bike seemed happy with them so that's what I got to replace, owners manual says either "E" or "EK". I'd rather have them work well for my application and change them every year, than get something that might last longer but makes my bike cranky, or fouls....

[ssg]

that "K" at the end is a dual electrode plug IIRC.

I ran them in my off-road 4strokes just because they fouled less when I was tiptoeing around in the mucky crap. Once the bike was nicely broken in it didn't matter much and plugs stopped fouling. The K's did it much less though.

I rock iridium in everything except 2-strokes (which I don't own) now.