Aftermarket Warranty Woes

[OneCheekRider]

I'll try to give a quick rundown: Bought a Tiger 1200 from Second Wind Triumph BMW and decided to buy an extended warranty. At the time it was a Triumph labeled warranty but said "Powered by RPM1". Triumph is not involved in this at all, so the warranty is through RPM1, who is now owned by a company called Revolos. Warranty has paid for a few small things here and there (fork seals) without a blink of an eye but bike is now at an authorized dealer for a noticeable ticking noise. Dealer performed diagnosis and determined a new timing chain is needed along with adjuster and guides. Seems a little premature but possibly reasonable given the 57k on the odo.

Dealer then files claim with warranty and warranty promptly asks for maintenance history. I provided a detailed logbook from when the bike had 4 miles on the odo to its most current service, an oil change at 55k. My logbook contains date, mileage, service performed, associated invoice, cost or warranty applied, and any additional notes/concerns. I also attached all scanned invoices/receipts in chronological order that correspond with the services performed in the logbook. There is over 40 pages of documentation ranging from oil changes to valve checks/adjustments in accordance with the owner's manual. My logbook is tracked via Excel and converted to PDF for distribution. I am told it is very simple to read and follow by dealer techs.

Owner's manual calls for oil service every 10k but I performed these myself every 5k. I buy the oil by the case along with appropriate filters and my logbook dictates which oil and filters from each receipt/invoice were applied for each oil change. For example, a 12 quart case would allow for 3 changes per the bike's 4 quart capacity, so the same receipt could be used for up to 3 separate oil changes.

They tried to deny the claim based off one filter not lining up with the records...but it does. It's all laid out in the logbook with the associated invoices. I called them and of course it's a different person every time who does not have access to the logbook or invoices. I said I'm happy to go through this together, even on a screen share, as you can tie off the invoice/receipt to what is recorded in the logbook. Again, it's pretty straightforward and everything is labeled. I reiterate these were performed every 5k and not every 10k as outlined in the owner's manual.

Someone must have re-read what I provided because they are now asking for a 3rd party inspection company to come and inspect the bike. Again, bike is currently at an authorized Triumph dealer with trained technicians certified by Triumph.

The dealer has never seen a warranty company scrutinize a well-documented machine to this level before but is warning me that this could turn into an inspection where they measure the actual timing chain that is removed from the bike and compare against the manufacturer's specs. This seems a bit extreme...I told the dealer to provide them with as much data and pictures as possible that led them to make the recommendation to perform this repair. I do not think it is reasonable to tear down a motor if there is enough evidence to suggest a repair. Nor do I want to be on the hook should they deny it for some reason and the bike is taken apart, then I am forced to make the repair.

I'm pretty annoyed at this whole process given I've provided meticulous maintenance records exceeding the manufacturer's requirements and per the contract, I am addressing an issue that could potentially cause worse damage. Keep in mind these exchanges have been taking days as the warranty company is pretty slow to respond and I already have 5 separate people who have reviewed the case, each of whom need to get "up to speed" on the situation.

Anyways, any words of wisdom or advice? The contract does have fine print, albeit rather ambiguous, about having a 3rd party inspection but nothing about an engine tear down inspection. I am also entitled to rental reimbursement per the contract but haven't gone down that rabbit hole yet.

TLDR?

• Have warranty, dealer made claim to replace timing chain.

• Provided extensive maintenance history from day 1 to warranty company

• PITA exchanges between warranty company delaying repairs

• Warranty wants 3rd party inspection with possible engine teardown to validate claim

• advice/things to prep for?

[number9]

Who is underwriting the warranty? RPM1 probably fob that off to an insurance company. Might be worth talking to them directly?

Failing that I'd reach out to the Attorney General or the Office of Consumer Affairs and get them to lightly prod the warranty company

[OneCheekRider]

The company is Revolos. When I call the number on the contract, it is directed to a representative there.

[e30addict]

Shady. They'll do everything to deny a claim

See if you can find them on social media and shame them. That worked for me on a boiler when they tried to weasel out of the warranty on a technicality despite it being a known issue.

Another avenue is to threaten them with legal pressure. Re-iterate that you have gone above and beyond what the manufacturer requires and there is zero negligence on your part. They are not acting in good faith by stonewalling and if not resolved expediently you will be seeking damages from them. Something along those lines...

[Garandman]

When I’ve had warranty or service issues (three) in the PRM, called the state AG office* and asked to speak with Consumer Protection.

They have followed up with the company involved, and in all three cases the company instantly, and out of the kindness of their hearts, agreed to cover the problem.

* Pro Tip: that is not the time to begin the conversation with how misguided you think the current occupant of the AG’s positions are. Stick to the knitting.

[FriskyDingo]

Shady. They'll do everything to deny a claim

No experience with that specific company, but i've been involved in similar situations and some of these warranty companies will look for ANYTHING to avoid paying.

Had a warranty for rear main seal leak denied because my receipt just said "Castrol Syn 10-40" and they claimed Castrol made multiple 10-40 oils and not all met the MFG requirements.

Had a friend have his warranty for transmission work denied because he had 225/45/17 tires instead of the factory 215/45/17 size.

[number9]

No experience with that specific company, but i've been involved in similar situations and some of these warranty companies will look for ANYTHING to avoid paying.

Had a warranty for rear main seal leak denied because my receipt just said "Castrol Syn 10-40" and they claimed Castrol made multiple 10-40 oils and not all met the MFG requirements.

Had a friend have his warranty for transmission work denied because he had 225/45/17 tires instead of the factory 215/45/17 size.

As soon as Kurlon shows up here I imagine he'll point out that this behavior almost certainly violated the Magnusson Moss Act

[PurplePackage]

aka interstate national dealer services

https://www.bbb.org/us/ga/atlanta/pr...stomer-reviews


You have an uphill battle. Your best move is to hit back with consumer protection laws or just hit them with a small claims lawsuit. Really, its easier and more satisfying to just sue them.

[Kurlon]

As soon as Kurlon shows up here I imagine he'll point out that this behavior almost certainly violated the Magnusson Moss Act

Nah, I'm having a lazy night.

[Garandman]

aka interstate national dealer services

https://www.bbb.org/us/ga/atlanta/pr...stomer-reviews


You have an uphill battle. Your best move is to hit back with consumer protection laws or just hit them with a small claims lawsuit. Really, its easier and more satisfying to just sue them.

Caveat:those third party warranty outfits are masters of denial.

Call Attorney General’s Office. Much much more effective, fast and free.

Another AG anecdote. One of our salespeople was buying a used Outback at Woburn Toyota. When they presented her the sales paperwork, they’d added $700 in charges.

She picked up her phone and pretended to call the AG’s office. The salesman panicked. Over the next 10-15 minutes, as she explained the situation and was “put on hold” the dealership first removed the $700. She stayed on the phone, explaining to the phantom AG they’d attempted to defraud her and laws were broken. The dealer than offered a $500 “courtesy discount” (which properly should have been called a “discourtesy” discount) to “make sure you are happy with our service.”

She then “hung up” the call and did the deal.

Even if you dislike any of our activist Attorney Generals, call the office. It will take a while to get the right people, but Their ability to create publicity is very effective.

[Degsy]

[SwiftTone]

Caveat:those third party warranty outfits are masters of denial.

Call Attorney General’s Office. Much much more effective, fast and free.

Another AG anecdote. One of our salespeople was buying a used Outback at Woburn Toyota. When they presented her the sales paperwork, they’d added $700 in charges.

She picked up her phone and pretended to call the AG’s office. The salesman panicked. Over the next 10-15 minutes, as she explained the situation and was “put on hold” the dealership first removed the $700. She stayed on the phone, explaining to the phantom AG they’d attempted to defraud her and laws were broken. The dealer than offered a $500 “courtesy discount” (which properly should have been called a “discourtesy” discount) to “make sure you are happy with our service.”

She then “hung up” the call and did the deal.

Even if you dislike any of our activist Attorney Generals, call the office. It will take a while to get the right people, but Their ability to create publicity is very effective.

In today's automotive climate, this is useful.

[RandyO]

I bought an extended warranty once, back in 1978, cancelled it 6 months later and got most of my $$ back, after I learned I could DIY a head gasket cheaper and quicker than the deductible

[nhbubba]

...I learned I could DIY a head gasket cheaper and quicker than the deductible

I thought your time was money.

I 'm a land surveyor, not a mechanic, I pay a professional, in turn, he hire's me to do what I do when he has the need, money flows both ways

[RandyO]

I thought your time was money.

45 years ago, my circumstances were different, I was just a guido making $5/hr

[OneCheekRider]

Of all the vehicles I've owned I've only bought two warranties: My Grand Cherokee's Factory Lifetime Warranty and this Triumph. I still think the Lifetime warranty was a no-brainer for the Jeep and encourages me to use it til the wheels fall off, but I will not buy or recommend another one of these aftermarket ones. I would've preferred to just pay the dealer or deal with it myself with this frustration they're putting me through. I bought it when I moved to CA and figured it would better budget any unpredictable repairs as my living and working situation was a bit uncertain during the move.

A member from the "leadership" team called me because it was reported I was unhappy with the services. Over the years, I've learned to keep a pretty calm demeanor but one of the reps got upset because I was unhappy with the service he provided. I had to explain, it's not you as an individual, it's the companies procedures that are not laid out clearly in the contract and the discretion to exercise some of those procedures depending on the repair. While this "leadership" person was useless in regards to my claim, I told her this practice doesn't make sense from a financial standpoint...it's an $1800 quoted repair, they've spent a few hours combing through my thorough records, and now they're hiring a 3rd party to drive out and perform an inspection. I'm guessing this inspector costs a decent amount in time and mileage. So at this point, they're either adding onto the cost of repair or only saving a few hundred in the grand scheme of things only to frustrate the customer so they don't buy or recommend another warranty. I'd love to see the cost analysis they perform to get to this point but I guess there's always someone blindly signing up for a warranty at a dealer (like I did).

[OneCheekRider]

Just to update: had a few things come up and wasn't able to hound the dealer/warranty. I did not approve it, but the dealer went ahead and took the timing chain out. I was hoping to avoid this as the bike would then require the repair regardless of claim status, but turns out there's noticeable wear/damage on the chain according to dealer. The dealer then contacted the warranty folks and an inspector happened to be in the area today and agreed it was damaged. Now I wait while the inspector sends photos and a report of his findings to the warranty company.

[PinHead]

Just to update: had a few things come up and wasn't able to hound the dealer/warranty. I did not approve it, but the dealer went ahead and took the timing chain out. I was hoping to avoid this as the bike would then require the repair regardless of claim status, but turns out there's noticeable wear/damage on the chain according to dealer. The dealer then contacted the warranty folks and an inspector happened to be in the area today and agreed it was damaged. Now I wait while the inspector sends photos and a report of his findings to the warranty company.

Isn't it amazing how much they spend so they don't need to give you anything.

[OneCheekRider]

Despite the 3rd party inspector -- who said "This will absolutely be an approved claim" -- the warranty company has officially DENIED the claim on the basis of "wear". Looking at the contract I don't see how they're able to do that, nor does it make sense in this scenario...therefore, I am contacting the inspector for his report and preparing for my next steps towards legal action. Will be calling the AG as recommended and go from there.

Any tips are appreciated but they kinda shot themselves in the foot with the 3rd party inspector and seem to be making a fit about it.

[Degsy]

Despite the 3rd party inspector -- who said "This will absolutely be an approved claim" -- the warranty company has officially DENIED the claim on the basis of "wear". Looking at the contract I don't see how they're able to do that, nor does it make sense in this scenario...therefore, I am contacting the inspector for his report and preparing for my next steps towards legal action. Will be calling the AG as recommended and go from there.

Any tips are appreciated but they kinda shot themselves in the foot with the 3rd party inspector and seem to be making a fit about it.

If you can prove that they maliciously tried to deny the claim without reason, it's potentially a triple damages claim.

[xrocket21]

Despite the 3rd party inspector -- who said "This will absolutely be an approved claim" -- the warranty company has officially DENIED the claim on the basis of "wear". Looking at the contract I don't see how they're able to do that, nor does it make sense in this scenario...therefore, I am contacting the inspector for his report and preparing for my next steps towards legal action. Will be calling the AG as recommended and go from there.

Any tips are appreciated but they kinda shot themselves in the foot with the 3rd party inspector and seem to be making a fit about it.

time to lawyer up

[OneCheekRider]

so a lawyer friend (who doesn't specialize in cases like this) is telling me small claims would likely be best course of action since it's <$10k.

[Degsy]

so a lawyer friend (who doesn't specialize in cases like this) is telling me small claims would likely be best course of action since it's <$10k.

The chances are, they wont show up and you'll get a judgement.

Tell them you will be having the work done and going to small claims for reimbursement if they don't pay you. They will probably call your bluff.
Keep receipts and records. File the small claims for a court date.
Show up at court date and see if they show up (they probably will not). Ask the judge politely if triple-damages might apply due to their egregious behaviour.
If you get a judgement, ask for costs (time off work, inconvenience, filing fees, gas etc).

[PurplePackage]

Yes sir, take it to small claims. You won't be made whole, but you'll get a decent return for your time and can move on.

[Degsy]

Yes sir, take it to small claims. You won't be made whole, but you'll get a decent return for your time and can move on.

If they find in his favor, he will get a full settlement. Why would he not be made whole? Maybe I'm missing something.